Request: Supermicro C2SBX+ motherboard possible hidden menus for memory settings?

[We of Us]

Hi.

Tell us more about the BIOS being somewhat strange?

We have battled with Supermicro customer service about it since the first build with this workstation motherboard.

It's automatic XMP memory settings are worse than worst, and after 5 set of memory modules, we did find a pair that works with offical Intel X48 chipset 1600MHz speed with the QX9770 processor.

We actually have lost our hope to get this board more user friendly aka. manual settings for memory and CPU, but if you happen to find anything hidden menus, we would be grateful. <3

That doesn't still mean that they actually work right, like the unmentionable "frequenzy ratio" settings.

[We of Us]

Ok.

We wonder if you professionals would like to know about the C2SBX+ Bios revisions and their changes.

Here is a text file that describes the changes so far(final stage).

Kindest regards,
We of us...

Ps. Could the microcode update to Yorkfield XE (assumed QX9770 SLAWM) C-1 stepping on beta Bios 2.0a be faulty, since the CPU Frequenzy ratio settings are behaving so weirdly?

[We of Us]

We did get the Beta Bios 2.0 from Supermicro and shifted to it, but the "Frequenzy Ratio" setting trouble still exists.

We feel a little helpless with this MB Bios mess up.

[We of Us]

We managed to get another GPU and downgrade the BIOs to 1.2a from Supermicro website, but no help.

Please somecells, help us, you're our only hope...

[Sml6397]

Hello All of You,

Sorry for the delay. Today, I have resumed work on your BIOS image.


Today, I explored your BIOS and it is extremely complex in terms of the wealth of settings that are both present AND hidden. I have added several menus and settings so far.

I will update you in a few minutes of what I have done so far and what I hope to be able to do.


You requested ways to change memory timings and the CPU/FSB clock. I believe I may have found partial answers to both of these issues.

1.) CPU Clock: The "Frequency Ratio" option did not work in your BIOS, even though the correct register was modified, because there is another option called "Frequency Hi Ratio". This is the setting that is supposed to be modified in your particular BIOS image. Sorry for not figuring that out earlier, this is new information to me.

The true register that you need to edit (for the "Frequency Hi Ratio" setting) is 0204.

Here are some of the values that you can set the register to and their corresponding options:

Default: 0000
x6: 0001
x7: 0002
x8: 0003
x9: 0004
x10: 0005
x11: 0006
x12: 0007
x13: 0008
x14: 0009

IMPORTANT NOTE: Please read the ENTIRETY of the post from this point onwards BEFORE making any changes. I have two conflicting sources of information (your BIOS and your CPU).

You will need to follow the exact same process detailed in post #5. I would only recommend going up to x9 for a start. This would be changing (0204) [00??] to (0204) [0004]. On my end, I see that the setting was [0007] for some reason. Make a NEW NVRAM Token Table dump and then change the value in this one. The reasoning behind this is eliminating the changed "frequency ratio" setting. Good luck! Please be sure to post your results (including your new NVRAM Token Table dump). If this for some reason results in your CPU slowing, then I know the answer to your problem for sure.

One more thing about the ratio: I noticed how you said the multiplier was x8. According to both your BIOS and your NVRAM Token Table dump, it is not. (0204) is currently set to [0007] which corresponds to x12. This is peculiar, because at x12, your CPU would be running at 4.8GHz!!! I do not know why your BIOS image and NVRAM Token Dump say x12, but I personally think that the default is x8, like you said, as this would be 3.2GHz. For now, try setting the "Frequency Hi Ratio" to 3.6GHz (x9). For these reasons though, there is a small chance that this setting is ignored, not visible in your BIOS menu, or may not work if changed. It should work in theory, but I do not yet know all of the factors in this field of BIOS/NVRAM settings. Worst off, you may have to pull the CMOS battery.

I believe your CPU's external clock is 400MHz and that it is quad-channel to provide the 1600MHz FSB. At x8, the 400MHz becomes the 3200MHz CPU internal clock speed.

I verified that your CPU DOES support Enhanced Intel Speedstep Technology. I found this information on Intel's official product page for your CPU. This may explain partially why the "frequency ratio" setting looked strange from my end and why on your end, it did not work. Since your CPU does have EIST, the setting that must be modified is the "Frequency Hi Ratio".

One more thing: Make sure that Enhanced Intel Speed Step is enabled under Advanced>Advanced Processor Options> . Could you also take a look at the right pane of the BIOS (where the setting descriptions are located) while the Enhanced Intel Speed Step is selected? I think that the BIOS manufacturer attached the WRONG description to the wrong setting (just like the same BIOS manufacturer put this text in your BIOS image ("Select the boot dispaly device for the IGD graphics driver" - They misspelled "display")).

2.) Memory Timings: The setting that controls memory timings is "XMP Function". There are a few more questions I will need to ask you to solve this problem, but I already have some ideas.
#1 Does the "XMP Function" setting appear under Advanced>Advanced Chipset Control> ? If not, there is a function hiding the option and this function can be nop'ed (set to ignore).
#2 If the previous answer was "yes," then which options are available to you? I can see 4 options in your BIOS image, but some of them may be hidden by the manufacturer. The options are as follows: "Auto" "Enabled" "Extreme" "Disabled". In the right pane of your BIOS, you should be able to see the descriptions for each of these. It appears that if you have a memory module faster than 1600MHz and you set the setting to "Extreme", it may allow clocks above 1600MHz. I found the strings (I think they refer to the speeds that are supported, but I could be wrong), "DDR3-1600" and "DDR3-1600XMP" in a list of possible RAM configurations (some of the other settings included slower speeds and even DDR2 support). I used a hex editor to find this information as it is more reliable than PBE.
#3 When (and if) you are able to change the XMP setting, does it have any real effect?


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For my progress on the modding: The mod is going great. You will see a LOT more features in your BIOS as compared to what you have now when I am through with it.

I am going to assume that you have a desktop PC and not a laptop due to the scope of the settings available in your BIOS and your will to overclock.


~Steven

[We of Us]

You requested ways to change memory timings and the CPU/FSB clock. I believe I may have found partial answers to both of these issues.

1.) CPU Clock: The "Frequency Ratio" option did not work in your BIOS, even though the correct register was modified, because there is another option called "Frequency Hi Ratio". This is the setting that is supposed to be modified in your particular BIOS image. Sorry for not figuring that out earlier, this is new information to me.

This is new information for us too. That "Frequenzy High Ratio" is hidden in our BIOS along with the "Hyperthreading", which is no surprise since the QX9770 does not have that function.

   

Green underline shows what is available, and red line what is hidden/unavailable.

The true register that you need to edit (for the "Frequency Hi Ratio" setting) is 0204.

Here are some of the values that you can set the register to and their corresponding options:

Default: 0000
x6: 0001
x7: 0002
x8: 0003
x9: 0004
x10: 0005
x11: 0006
x12: 0007
x13: 0008
x14: 0009

Ok, but since the "Frequency High Ratio" is not available and does not function ATM, we don't think that changing it would make any difference since it's already set by "System default" at X12. At the Phoenix Bios editor Setup Table window that "Manufacturer default" is default, so it must be blocking the "Frequenzy High Ratio" option away?

If we would like to use the "Frequenzy High Ratio", then we probably must change the "Manufacturer default" upwards, to make it really change the CPU frquenzy for example to 3.6GHz at X9 multiplier???

One more thing about the ratio: I noticed how you said the multiplier was x8.

Well we meant that the "Default" option at "Frequenzy Ratio" is working with Intel's default X8 multiplier, not that the setting is manually at X8.

For now, try setting the "Frequency Hi Ratio" to 3.6GHz (x9). For these reasons though, there is a small chance that this setting is ignored, not visible in your BIOS menu, or may not work if changed.

It probably is ignored, if the register at 0204 is only changing the "System default" setting, leaving the "Manufacturer default" untouched.

I verified that your CPU DOES support Enhanced Intel Speedstep Technology. I found this information on Intel's official product page for your CPU. This may explain partially why the "frequency ratio" setting looked strange from my end and why on your end, it did not work. Since your CPU does have EIST, the setting that must be modified is the "Frequency Hi Ratio".

Yes, and this one option is unavailable at the BIOS.

One more thing: Make sure that Enhanced Intel Speed Step is enabled under Advanced>Advanced Processor Options> .

The "Enhanced Intel Speed Step" option is available and it gives default option as "GV1/GV3 only", should this be changed to "Enabled" as then it is working with "GV1/GV3 and C1 states", and what ever those terms are IRL???

2.) Memory Timings: The setting that controls memory timings is "XMP Function". There are a few more questions I will need to ask you to solve this problem, but I already have some ideas.
#1 Does the "XMP Function" setting appear under Advanced>Advanced Chipset Control> ? If not, there is a function hiding the option and this function can be nop'ed (set to ignore).

Yes it appears...

   

#2 If the previous answer was "yes," then which options are available to you?

All options are available...

#3 When (and if) you are able to change the XMP setting, does it have any real effect?

We're using with this current memory kit the "Enabled" option and it works with the 1600MHz speed at CL9.

The problem with that "option" is that this RAM module kit is the only one that works with the BIOS preprogrammed XMP memory settings, and for example these modules are specified as 1,5V @1600MHz speed and the preprogrammed XMP setting on the BIOS is forcing 1,95V to the modules, which is totally stupid.

This is why we would like to have total manual memory settings for all the timings and voltages, so that those kind of over voltages and uncompatible CL7 timings are managed correctly.

I am going to assume that you have a desktop PC and not a laptop due to the scope of the settings available in your BIOS and your will to overclock.

Yes, it's workstation PC used partly as common desktop PC.

[Sml6397]

Hello All of You,

This is new information for us too. That "Frequenzy High Ratio" is hidden in our BIOS along with the "Hyperthreading", which is no surprise since the QX9770 does not have that function.

I can unhide the Frequency Ratio settings. If there are any other settings that show in PBE, but not your actual BIOS menu, please let me know and I can unhide them in your modded BIOS image.

Ok, but since the "Frequency High Ratio" is not available and does not function ATM, we don't think that changing it would make any difference since it's already set by "System default" at X12. At the Phoenix Bios editor Setup Table window that "Manufacturer default" is default, so it must be blocking the "Frequenzy High Ratio" option away?

If we would like to use the "Frequenzy High Ratio", then we probably must change the "Manufacturer default" upwards, to make it really change the CPU frquenzy for example to 3.6GHz at X9 multiplier???

From what I have read and experienced, the register overrides both the manufacturer and the standard defaults. The two defaults only tell the CMOS NVRAM what to be set to when you reset to factory default settings.

My calculations for what the new clock speeds would be are based solely on my estimations for your CPU external clock rate - 400MHz.

Sml6397 Wrote: For now, try setting the "Frequency Hi Ratio" to 3.6GHz (x9). For these reasons though, there is a small chance that this setting is ignored, not visible in your BIOS menu, or may not work if changed.

It probably is ignored, if the register at 0204 is only changing the "System default" setting, leaving the "Manufacturer default" untouched.

The setting is probably ignored, but not as a result of either of the default tables. They just give the CMOS NVRAM its default values once the BIOS is set back to factory defaults. I CAN manually edit settings in the BIOS, but these will become the defaults and changing default settings for clock speeds is very dangerous (what if the setting is incompatible for whatever reason?) and can make recovery difficult. That is why I suggest changing registers and BIOS menu settings.

The "Enhanced Intel Speed Step" option is available and it gives default option as "GV1/GV3 only", should this be changed to "Enabled" as then it is working with "GV1/GV3 and C1 states", and what ever those terms are IRL??? Big Grin

I would suggest setting this option to "Enabled" as it could help in the enabling of the "Frequency Hi Ratio" setting once I am finished with the BIOS mod.

We're using with this current memory kit the "Enabled" option and it works with the 1600MHz speed at CL9.

The problem with that "option" is that this RAM module kit is the only one that works with the BIOS preprogrammed XMP memory settings, and for example these modules are specified as 1,5V @1600MHz speed and the preprogrammed XMP setting on the BIOS is forcing 1,95V to the modules, which is totally stupid.

This is why we would like to have total manual memory settings for all the timings and voltages, so that those kind of over voltages and uncompatible CL7 timings are managed correctly.

That is very strange and possibly dangerous! That is VERY high voltage. I wonder what would happen if it were set to "Extreme" which is made to accommodate more powerful RAM.

I don't think I have enough experience yet to add completely new settings (like custom memory and timing/voltage settings) to the BIOS that do not already exist. It would require a LOT more programming skills than I currently have to find out how the "setting" is controlled. Then, I would have to write the execution code for the new setting. This is something that I do plan on tackling sometime in the future, but I cannot add these right now. I am trying to get in contact with kizwan. He may be able to help me learn this.

I will search for any existing settings that may have an effect on these timings/voltages. I will have a lot of time on my hands today at summer school (computer class ) to investigate and mod your BIOS.

One more thing: I noticed that some of the settings in your BIOS menus/sub-menus were organized strangely and some not even grouped together (such as those in the Advanced>Advanced Chipset Control> sub-menu). I can reorganize these. I have already done this in a few menus. If you wish to reorganize the menus, just ask and I can do so. This will help to create a higher quality mod (and something to do in class when I have already finished all of my work ).


~Steven

[We of Us]

I can unhide the Frequency Ratio settings. If there are any other settings that show in PBE, but not your actual BIOS menu, please let me know and I can unhide them in your modded BIOS image.

Sure, we'll check that later and make new reply with pictures...

From what I have read and experienced, the register overrides both the manufacturer and the standard defaults. The two defaults only tell the CMOS NVRAM what to be set to when you reset to factory default settings.

Ok, we trust yourcells knowledge...

My calculations for what the new clock speeds would be are based solely on my estimations for your CPU external clock rate - 400MHz.

They are accurate, so we are planning to use only X10 @ 4GHz and maybe try X11 @4,4GHz, if the watercooling system is efficient enough to keep the temperatures at bay... It should be... almost 3000€ on them!

The setting is probably ignored, but not as a result of either of the default tables. They just give the CMOS NVRAM its default values once the BIOS is set back to factory defaults. I CAN manually edit settings in the BIOS, but these will become the defaults and changing default settings for clock speeds is very dangerous (what if the setting is incompatible for whatever reason?) and can make recovery difficult. That is why I suggest changing registers and BIOS menu settings.

Ok, got that, so don't change the default settings.

I would suggest setting this option to "Enabled" as it could help in the enabling of the "Frequency Hi Ratio" setting once I am finished with the BIOS mod.

It's done actually already, because we tried, if it enables that "Frequency High Ratio" setting, but no, it still doesn't show.

That is very strange and possibly dangerous! That is VERY high voltage. I wonder what would happen if it were set to "Extreme" which is made to accommodate more powerful RAM.

That voltage was usual voltage of 1600MHz DDR3 at 2008, but it's still weird, that the voltage doesn't adjust correctly since the MB VRM should be dynamic and change from 1,5V to 1,9V by the module specs???

The motherboard Manual 1.0b has some references for Overclocking and changing the voltages, but the Bios don't have such things on it, so???

From the newest Manual 1.1c the references for overclocking have been removed.

I don't think I have enough experience yet to add completely new settings (like custom memory and timing/voltage settings) to the BIOS that do not already exist. It would require a LOT more programming skills than I currently have to find out how the "setting" is controlled. Then, I would have to write the execution code for the new setting. This is something that I do plan on tackling sometime in the future, but I cannot add these right now. I am trying to get in contact with kizwan. He may be able to help me learn this.

Well, if youcells can figure out the CPU overclocking now, the memory settings can be arranged later, as they are not so important ATM (maybe next year or so?).

This computer project has already growth to extreme levels, so it doesn't matter if some features will come later...

I will search for any existing settings that may have an effect on these timings/voltages. I will have a lot of time on my hands today at summer school (computer class ) to investigate and mod your BIOS.

We wonder, if they have been previously on the older Bios's, but have been removed/hidden, since the references to them has been removed from the Manual as well...

One more thing: I noticed that some of the settings in your BIOS menus/sub-menus were organized strangely and some not even grouped together (such as those in the Advanced>Advanced Chipset Control> sub-menu). I can reorganize these. I have already done this on a few menus. If you wish to reorganize the menus, just ask and I can do so. This will help to create a higher quality mod (and something to do in class when I have already finished all of my work ).

By all means, anything that makes the Bios more organized is bonus to the functionality!

Kindest regards,
We of us...

PS.

Check this...

2SBX9087.ROM Date:09-08-2007

1.Fix CMP malfunction with some CPU.

2.Update TPM MA driver.

3.Correct GPIO 50~55 setting.

4.Add over clock function for C2SBX.

5.Update AHCI rom and Intel Raid option rom.

6.Remove unuse code of OEMNODE.

7.Correct slave DMA setting from DMA0 to DMA1

8.Add USB S5 wake up support.

9.Fix system can't boot to SATA cdrom with Intel Raid enable.

AND LATER...

2SBXB017.ROM Date:11-01-2007

1.Change logo display resolution to 640X480

2.Fix DDR3 platform show wrong speed during POST.

3.1)System hang up after wake up from lan if send 1 more packet
2)Fix 82566 lan PME can't disable
3)Lan care on PCIE of NB cause system auto wake up

4.Remove C2SBX over clock function.

So that's it... It was a feature in older bios's, but was removed 2 months later... Wonder why???

PPS.

Then there is this:

2SBX3178.ROM Date:03-17-2008
CBXP3178.ROM

1.Patch Vista can't enable second nVidia VGA card if 2 card present
Description:Vista device manager have yellow mark on second Nvidia VGA
card.

2.Fix C2SBX PCIE X16 slot PME wake up can't work.
Description: PCIE X16 slot can'w wake up by lan PME wake function

3.Fix VDIMM can't pull up to 1.9 Voltage when XMP support
Description: BIOS need pull up Dimm voltage to 1.95 when XMP support.
For XMP support, system must use QX9770 CPU and 1600 Mhz memroy.

4.Change C2SBX BIOS revision to 1.0c

5.According to Thermal team Adjust Conroe/Kentsfield/Yorkfield/Wolfdale
Temperature offset.
Description: Old BIOS show low temperature with Yorkfield/Wolfdale CPU

6.Add new feature to fill BIOS revision to DMI type0.
Description: BIOS fill version into DMI type 0 BIOS version field.

So that is where that 1,95V comes from.

[We of Us]

So of the menus.

   

So the Main menu don't have "Sata ACHI Legacy Enable" option, but that's just option if the Windows doesn't support the upper "Sata ACHI Enable" option, so no big deal.

Then Advanced Menu / Boot Features

   

It's missing "S3 Resume Retain PCI-E", but is that any important feature and what is affecting to it's missing???
Also "Summary Screen" is missing, but not missed.

Then Advanced Menu / Advanced Processor Options

   

From that list are missing the "Frequency High Ratio". Important.
Then "Hyperthreading". Unimportant and QX9770 doesn't have that feature.
Then "Intel Enhanced Debug". Unimportant and QX9770 doesn't have that feature.
Then the "L3 Cache", which QX9770 doesn't have, so not important.

Then Advanced Menu / Hardware Monitor

   

From there is missing "The Early Alarm", which is probably not so important, and may have some bug in it? -> check the Bios revision list.

So everything else on PBE is available and if something else is found, then they are hidden options from earlier Bios's.

Kindest regards,
We of Us...

PS.

We also asked from Supermicro all the earlier Bios's and the Motherboard Manual 1,0a or earlier, so we can check with PBE what kind of options those removed Overclocking features were, and check from the manual about how they were supposed to work.

[We of Us]

Ok, now at last we found the old C2SBX Bios that has the overclocking feature enabled.

   

It's the zip file supermicro_c2sbx_bios11 and file 2SBXA257.ROM Date:10-25-2007

Could the same features be found hidden from the 2.0a bios, or if not, could they be copied to it and they would still work on the new bios?

The C2SBX is Intel X38 1333MHz chipset and C2SBX+ is Intel X48 1600MHz chipset, but the rest of the motherboards are identical including VRM parts.

The dimm voltage overclocking feature would also be nice, if the disabled would mean dynamic range from 1,5V to 1,8V and then step 1 (1,9V) overvoltage and then step 2 (2.0V) overvoltage as overclocking features.

There are no Memory timing settings though on that Bios emulation and also no XMP function, so how does those memory settings work with the newer bios is questionable...

There is also attached the 2SBX3038.zip file, which includes the one bios before the bios that fixed the 1600MHz dimm voltage to that extra high 1,95V, so could those earlier XMP settings work dynamically with the module preferences?

Check them out, and tell uscells what do youcells think of them.

Kindest regards,
We of us...