(09-07-2011, 03:25 AM)barcode Wrote: [ -> ] (09-06-2011, 11:06 PM)AHMED HOSSAM Wrote: [ -> ]That exactly why i asked you to test using low fan speeds and gaming not the tools like furmark as nividia confirm this as harm tools ( I asked you to do this in my previous posts 
) .
just test like i told you in the previous posts :-
1 ) put fans on low speeds using HWINFO .
2 ) minimize the tool in background then open any heavy game like crisis .
3 ) still playing till you face throttle .
4 ) when you face throttle , minimize the game and see the throttle temp and voltage in the tool .
and after your previous posts , i can say you will not face throttle while gaming or doing anything ........ just throttle when using these tools .
i will wait your results and please try this test to be 100% sure that there is no throttle .
No throttle detected Crysis 2 gpu temps seem to stay at 70/71
barcode, he asks you to switch off the fans and then heat up the card untill your reach the throttle. I asked you to do that the same a few pages back. Don't tell me that without fans spinning at a high speed you get 70*C is Crysis 2 because that is impossible. Crysis 2 heats up the cards quite nicely.
Can you finally disable the fans (making them spin at extra slow speed) and heat up your cards? You understand what we are asking for, don't you? FANs speed -> low
And let me repeat this for you.
If you reach around 80*C in a game, the throttle kicks in. On Stock clocks it happens in STALKER Clear Sky. The game is so badly optimized it keeps on constantly heating up GPU. This means the cards are throttled. If it was Nvidia doing, those people OCing the card on Clevo notebooks would be affected as well. They are not. Only we the owners of m18x are. Think people, think. If is also enough to slightly OC the cards, say up to 710/1580/1420 and then heat it up a bit to hit the throttle threshold in any other game, not only STALKER CS. I have done my tests so I know what I am talking about.
The answer could be that if we run a GPU intensive game on OCed cards, the game is treated like a stress software -> hence the throttle. Still, this does not explain why those people overclocking their 580m on Clevo notebooks experience no throttling. They run the same drivers we do, don't they? Right.
(09-07-2011, 05:40 AM)0x29a Wrote: [ -> ] (09-07-2011, 03:25 AM)barcode Wrote: [ -> ] (09-06-2011, 11:06 PM)AHMED HOSSAM Wrote: [ -> ]That exactly why i asked you to test using low fan speeds and gaming not the tools like furmark as nividia confirm this as harm tools ( I asked you to do this in my previous posts ) .
just test like i told you in the previous posts :-
1 ) put fans on low speeds using HWINFO .
2 ) minimize the tool in background then open any heavy game like crisis .
3 ) still playing till you face throttle .
4 ) when you face throttle , minimize the game and see the throttle temp and voltage in the tool .
and after your previous posts , i can say you will not face throttle while gaming or doing anything ........ just throttle when using these tools .
i will wait your results and please try this test to be 100% sure that there is no throttle .
No throttle detected Crysis 2 gpu temps seem to stay at 70/71
barcode, he asks you to switch off the fans and then heat up the card untill your reach the throttle. I asked you to do that the same a few pages back. Don't tell me that without fans spinning at a high speed you get 70*C is Crysis 2 because that is impossible. Crysis 2 heats up the cards quite nicely.
Can you finally disable the fans (making them spin at extra slow speed) and heat up your cards? You understand what we are asking for, don't you? FANs speed -> low
And let me repeat this for you. If you reach around 80*C in a game, the throttle kicks in. On Stock clocks it happens in STALKER Clear Sky. The game is so badly optimized it keeps on constantly heating up GPU. This means the cards are throttled. If it was Nvidia doing, those people OCing the card on Clevo notebooks would be affected as well. They are not. Only we the owners of m18x are. Think people, think. If is also enough to slightly OC the cards, say up to 710/1580/1420 and then heat it up a bit to hit the throttle threshold in any other game, not only STALKER CS. I have done my tests so I know what I am talking about.
The answer could be that if we run a GPU intensive game on OCed cards, the game is treated like a stress software -> hence the throttle. Still, this does not explain who those people overclocking their 580m on Clevo notebooks experience no throttling. They run the same drivers we do, don't they? Right.
I exactly understand what your telling me to do, and i'll repeat it in writing
i'm not prepared to run the gpu's on a $4500 dollar machine with no fans full stop!If you want to do it, then go ahead.
Frankly, my part has been served here and i originally asked the question if we can remove throttle in this thread, Yes we have had ups and downs along the way and thank everyone for their efforts. (Even tho the outcome was negiative for the throttle we still got an unlocked bonus bios out of all this and to me this is a WIN!)
This was meant to be for all M18X 580M users to benifit as reports suggest throttle. (In the end all users for M18X benifited with the unlocked feature bios)
Personally this doesn't effect me too much in gaming as i don't experience throttle, it only in benching (which i can deal with) In the real world who will be putting that much stress on the gpu.
What makes you so sure its Dell, since the creator Dell assured me it's not them and even to prove it provided me with the A00 bios which they didnt have to do! They were even willing to replace the whole laptop or gpu motherboard etc, who else would offer this sort of replacement or guarantee
Now you can proceed with this thread if you wish and as you seem to know what you doing please make the quality tests yourself and provide it to the professionals and im sure with 5000 views and 30 threads where are these other observers/testers.
Please dont take this post personal im not trying to be rude, but i can only do so much to have this annoying problem solved. I need more assistance and require other users who understand and know what to do to help as well.
Tnx
Right, you are ready to flash countless number of bioses or flash your 1200 USD worth cards with a custom bios found in the net, yet you are not ready to set fan speed to custom RPM and play a game for 5 min to see what happens. This makes sense. I get it.
Okay, simple results. Used clocks 710/1580/1420, both cards. Fans manually set to 1500 rpm using HWiNFO64. 10 mins of gameplay
STALKER Clear Sky: the throttle kicks in around 79-80*C. The primary card is being heavily used, around 99% (GPU clock). The second card remains used at around 70-80%.
Bulletstorm: The primary card reached 90*C. The secondary around 76*C. The throttle did not kick in. Both cards are used at 40-60% throughout the game.
FEAR3: Same situation as with SCS. The primary card is highly utilized, usage reaches 99%. The throttle kicks in at 83*C.
Now, conclusions?
1) The throttle seems to be load-related, I'd say. If a highly GPU intensive game runs for a while it starts looking like a stress software. This makes sense.
2) the initially observed 80*C limit can be a confidence. When the cards are heavily loaded and reach constant usage of around 9x-100% the temp quickly reaches 78-8x*C and then the load-related throttle kicks in -> it looks like 80*C is the threshold
I can add that STALKER CS seems to be utilizing the cards way beyond necessity. The games runs at 80-120FPS yet neither temperatures nor load are dropping. Looks like a bad optimization. AFAIR there were issues with SCS overheating Nvidia cards back in the days. That could be the case here.
3) The load-related throttle, if indeed there is such, makes oveclocking pointless and harmful. Oveclocked cards will work harder, so to say, and will sooner/easier be detected as stress apps. Apparently how a game utilizes GPU is game specific. So it will work with one game, it won't with another. This sucks.
Hi All ,
I didn`t say that anyone should turnoff the fans for test , i said PUT THE GPU FANS ON LOW SPEED and 0x29a has put it in the low speed as i mentioned ( 1500RPM ) then tested and reported the results i needed .
the GPU will not reach any dangerous temp as the system will shut down automatically to prevent any damage ( in case critical temps are reached which is 100 or above for the 580M GPU ) .
-- I need to knew the voltage of this throttle too in the STALKER game .
i see that GPU reached 90c with no throttle and in STALKER it reached 80c then throttle............this make me feel its only voltage related not temps.
NVIDIA limit for the 580M is 100c or above ( i didn`t exactly remember but its not less than 100c )..................the GPU should only throttle when 100c is reached or detecting any tools like furmark to begin the voltage throttle .
-- @0x29a : i need to knew the voltage for every sitiuation in the previous test .
- also , do you detect throttle in STALKER when in normal situation !! or even when fans at full speed !
-- It seems like no throttle in any games ( except STALKER ) and the only way to make the card throttle is by using tools like FURMARK .
Ahmed, I guess the voltage was max what the cards allow, so 870 mV (= .870 V). But this needs to be checked so I can be 100% sure. I remember Nvidia Inspector readings showing 920mV when HWiNFO showed max 870 mV. One of the apps is mistaken. It is possible that under heavy load the cards try to switch to 920mV but they can't because of some limit -> as a response throttle kicks in.
I will make more accurate tests tomorrow, attaching screenshots of Nvidia Inspector graphs and HWiNFO. I will also use CPUID Hardware Monitor Pro. It can draw graphs as well.
STALKER CS can indeed be an exception. It seems the game is badly written so keeps on heating up / causing much more load that is necessary. As I said, I had the game running at 120 FPS (oh, vsync is broken too..., had to enforce through Nvidia settings) yet it keeps on heating up the cards. I guess that the way this game utilizes GPU is similar to Furmark stress tests, hence the throttle. I noticed the problem occurs when advanced volumetric lighting is present in the game, e.g. in the (game) morning when the sun rises all shiny and gloomy etc. so the throttle appears when the game puts maximum pressure on the cards.
And yes, before the throttle kicks in, I can hear that fans spin at max speeds.
Barcode provided me with details about modified EEPROM for Nvidia cards allowing higher voltages. I think I will be willing to try these as well later on too. They are said to offer more space for OCing without the goddamn throttle.
edit: if not tomorrow then on friday. I may be busy tomorrow. a scheduled afternoon executive meeting I forgot about
(09-07-2011, 10:06 AM)camiloml Wrote: [ -> ]http://www.mediafire.com/?mn5wfmckamru1y7
Bios A00 just menus unlocked, no other mod. As requested 
Enjoy it.
Thanks Camiloml!!
This is not over by a long shot!! Personally i still think this is a nvidia overclock protection mechanism meaning OCP protects against any possible program that would generate an excessive load.
Therefore its not a bios issue and would seem to be implemented in the actual nvidia drivers.
So no fix for he 580M but perhaps if it is a driver then you could try older drivers?
In my opinion , there no problem as long as there is no throtte in games.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,no need to use all these tools like furmark .
the bios is unlocked and you found no throttle in games,,,,,,,,,,,so i think its fixed and no problems now .